Transcript: Interference Episode 10

Currently this text is a copy of our working script, not the exact text of the episode. It will be updated once we have transcripts prepared for every episode.

GENEVA

Hello Everyone and welcome to the Practical Gamemaster. I’m your host Geneva, and today we’re going to talk abound Dungeons and Dragons. What is a dungeon? What is a dragon? Let’s talk about that.

JACQ

(far away sounding, getting closer) Geneva, what are you doing? I just stepped out for a second and you’re podcasting without me?

GENEVA

And here’s our first guest. It’s Jacq everyone, dungeon master extraordinaire. So Jacq, tell us. Who’s your favorite dragon.

JACQ

My favorite dragon? Is that a thing? Who is your favorite dragon?

GENEVA

Well, you know, I've never really thought about it. I guess… it's probably… the Dragon of the Green Hills.

JACQ

Who's that?

GENEVA

So, basically, there was this dragon, and it was really old, and it just… didn't move for a while? And people thought it was a set of hills, and people started building houses and farms and stuff on it? And then one day it got up and moved, and there's more to it than that, but it's a really long story.

And that's not what we were gonna talk about, anyway!

JACQ

True. We were gonna talk about how it was the Rhode Island Pride parade yesterday! I didn’t go, because… people. Aren’t my jam. IRL, anyway. But, uh, I have my “Pride was a Riot” t-shirt on, and I’m ready to party with the internet.

I thought it would be interesting if, in honor of pride month, we discussed sexuality on Chel with Geneva. I ran it by her earlier, and she was intrigued by the idea.

GENEVA

Yes, hello!

JACQ

Hi! Are you getting stage fright now?

GENEVA

...maybe.

So… do you have questions, or do I just need to start talking about things?

JACQ

Oh, I can ask questions. Let's see. Well, let's start with, just, is being gay, in the sense of - who you love is an important aspect of one's identity, even a concept on Chel?

GENEVA

No… not really. We have gay people, of course, but we don’t make a big deal of it. I like both, that’s...Bisexual? Or maybe Pansexual? Anyway, no one thinks that that’s weird or special.

You have so many words. How do you keep track of them all?

JACQ

Well, really, it depends who you’re talking to. In the community, it’s pretty accepted that you just say “I’m queer,” or “I’m gay,” and the details aren’t too important. But with straight people, it’s much more common to say LGBT+ or something, because if you say “I’m gay” they… oversimplify you? I guess.

But, really, the words are there to help people find others like them. It is… very unusual to see queer people represented in books and on TV and stuff, so if you feel differently you end up feeling pretty isolated. But with words like demigender and asexual and polysexual, you can find things that have been written about people like you, and meet people who have gone through the same things.

All the words are a little much - thus saying just “queer” works fine. But it’s at the point where we need flexible documentation to keep it all straight. For trans terminology, for example, I use something all the time called the Transgender Language Primer. It lists a lot of words, what they mean, how they are or have been used. One of my podcasty friends, Greyson, makes it.

GENEVA

Yeah, okay so I’m queer. A lot of people here are. No one really pays any attention to that either way. Just being able to use one word without having to figure all that stuff out is great! thanks!

JACQ

Hah! You are welcome. So - loving people of whatever gender is totally acceptable?

GENEVA

Right!

JACQ

Has it always been like that? And is this just in Etonna or is it widespread in a lot of different cultures?

GENEVA

So from what I understand, it used to be that way, but then for some reason there was a big push against it. People rebelled against it though. It was a hard fight. Oh! Mostly verbal, but the queer people won about 150 years ago and it’s become an unimportant issue again.

JACQ

Oh! I… “the queer people won” really warms my heart, I gotta say. Our fight… has not always been verbal. Thus the t-shirt I mentioned earlier.

GENEVA

What does this shirt look like?

JACQ

Uh, it’s black, and in pink lettering it says THE FIRST GAY PRIDE WAS A RIOT. It’s a play on words, because pride is a really fun event now, but it commemorates literal rioting in the streets about 50 years ago.

GENEVA

So real fighting then. Not to make um arguments or debates or whatever seem unimportant. But physically dangerous brawls over this issue. But it sounds like they're more now and less fighty! So that’s good. It sounds like you’re making some progress.

JACQ

Well, yeah. It took a lot of work to get here. And things certainly aren’t perfect. I'm not a scholar of it or anything, but I know my basic queer history. We celebrate pride because if we don't make a big deal about it, we get pushed right back to the margins.

GENEVA

So, you guys fight! Like a pride of lions, rarrrr!

JACQ

Hahah! Kind of, yeah. It doesn't look like a fight, but it's important to remember that it is one. Uh, so. That's a pretty broad look at sexuality, but let's move on to gender.

GENEVA

(Hesitantly) okay.

JACQ

So, in my country right now, there is a sort of big movement where transgender people are fighting for that same visibility and acceptance that gay people have mostly in their grasp, even if it is somewhat tenuous.

GENEVA

Oh! How are they doing? They’re not as accepted as Gay people?

JACQ

Well, no. It’s complicated. They are definitely doing better than ever, but sometimes that’s still quite badly.

GENEVA

Ugh that’s no good! People should treat them better! They’re people too!

JACQ

Well, yeah, definitely. The problem is that even without bringing transgender people into it, gender is a very… difficult subject.

GENEVA

Why is that?

JACQ

We don’t… exactly… treat men and women equally?

GENEVA

Like how? Are your men-folk like slaves or something? Because that would be pretty creepy Jacq.

JACQ

Haha - uh. No. There were times when our women were treated like slaves. It’s not like that anymore, but men and women are held to different standards, and women typically make less money than men, and women are more likely to be questioned about their career choices… lots of stuff.

GENEVA

Why? That’s stupid. Women can do just as much as men.

JACQ

I mean, there is a whole field of study dedicated to the issue - same thing with queer people - but I mean, it all really boils down to “that’s the way it is,” and, then hopefully “how do we fix it?”

The term we use for people who recognize the inequality and try to reverse it is “feminist.”

GENEVA

So that’s kind of like his pride thing it sounds like? You’re celebrating being a woman in order to raise awareness of how great you are so you can achieve equality?

JACQ

UH! Typically it’s less fun? I think the difference sort of lies in, with different types of sexuality people typically don’t deny it exists, they just think you’re sinful or whatever. Whereas with feminism, it’s about convincing people to see it. It’s hard. Always.

GENEVA

I’m sorry. Do you need me to come over there and put a hex on some people for you?

JACQ

So - yes? I can think of some choice people? But that wouldn’t fix gender inequality (laughing). Um - anyway, I’m leading to something with this.

GENEVA

Well anything for you dear. What are you working toward?

JACQ

TERFs. It stands for trans-exclusionary radical feminism. It’s not a term I like, because there’s literally nothing radical OR feminist about excluding trans women from your movement, but it’s the word we use.

GENEVA

Yeah that doesn’t sound any good. Hey guys don’t do that!

JACQ

Hah! I know you’re joking, but I mean - you have a really good parallel in your culture that I’ve seen, like “Hey, just stop stereotyping humans, guys!” It’s not that easy.

GENEVA

*sighs* yeah. I get your point. I’m sorry guys.

JACQ

Anyway, the point is that when it comes to gender, even people who are cool about other things, they can be huge assholes when it comes to trans people… so the type of people who AREN’T cool about the gay stuff… can be dangerous.

GENEVA

Gay stuff? Or Queer stuff? Dangerous how?

JACQ

Uh, so I guess when I say “gay stuff” I mean sexuality stuff, and “queer stuff” I’m including both issues of sexuality and gender?

GENEVA

Oh okay. Sorry I just didn’t understand what you were saying for a minute there I understand what you were saying now.

JACQ

That’s fine - it’s complicated. And, dangerous because violent crimes disproportionately target trans people.

GENEVA

That's… awful. I'm sorry to hear that

JACQ

I'm sorry to report it. Oh! But - the point was to report on Chel!! Is it better, where you come from?

GENEVA

Oh, um right! Trans people on Chel you say? Uh…

JACQ

If you don’t really know about it, that’s fine? Everything is pretty tangled together, here, because of the whole pride thing.

GENEVA

Uh, no I know a little um. We don't have many, as far as I know. And they are, uh, tolerated. I guess. I mean I don’t actually know anyone myself or anything, but it seems like… they’re kinda viewed as freaks.

JACQ

Oh no! That’s terrible, I figured that with such open-mindedness related to sexuality, it would be the same about gender?

See--I talked about Pride being a fight, that’s accurate to some extent, but it’s also... a community. Everyone has bad experiences, but there are so many places that just accept everyone queer - which, literally just means… weird? Different? Like a part of me knows that the dominant culture is straight and cisgendered, but pretty much everyone I hang out with is some sorta queer.

GENEVA

It must be nice, having a community like that. You all look out for each other!

JACQ

Yeah. It’s a little overwhelming, this time of year, but there are so many people out there making it their goal in life to make everyone feel accepted.

Really, that’s why I keep doing the podcasty thing.

GENEVA

Happy Pride!

JACQ

(sniffling) happy pride my friend.

GENEVA

Are, are you okay?

JACQ

I have to admit, I thought this would be more fun! I thought we'd be hooting and hollering and waving rainbow flags up in here.

GENEVA

The rainbow flags sound pretty. I’m sorry that it hasn’t been what you expected. But I enjoyed talking with you.

JACQ

Me too--I just hope people aren’t pissed that I spent so much time talking about Earth again...

ROOMMATE

(interrupting, knocking on door) Dude, the fucking feds are at the door looking for you.

JACQ

What?

ROOMMATE

The cops are here, quit talking to your space girlfriend and get your ass out here.

JACQ

(overtalk) What?! Geneva I have to go.

GENEVA

What's a cop? What's happening?

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Thank you for listening to Interference. For more information, or to get in touch, head to orczone.com, or hit us up on Twitter @theorczone. Many thanks in this episode go to Kristin Flemons of the Broadswords, for providing the voice of Jacq’s roommate. Also I want to thank Greyson Simon for creating the Transgender Language Primer! It’s an amazing resource, and they’re an amazing person. Finally, as always, we thank Jahzzar for the use of their song “Please Listen Carefully,” available at betterwithmusic.com.